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The suspect in the high-profile killing of a health insurance CEO that has gripped the United States graduated from an Ivy League university, reportedly hails from a wealthy family, and wrote social media posts brimming with cerebral musings. Luigi Mangione, 26, was thrust into the spotlight Monday after police revealed he is their person of interest in the brutal murder of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson, a father of two, last week in broad daylight in Manhattan in a case that laid bare deep frustration and anger with America's privatized medical system. News of his capture in Pennsylvania -- following a tip from a McDonald's worker --triggered an explosion of online activity, with Mangione quickly amassing new followers on social media as citizen sleuths and US media tried to understand who he is. While some lauded him as a hero and lamented his arrest, others analyzed his intellectual takes in search of ideological clues. A photo on one of his social media accounts includes an X-ray of an apparently injured spine. No explicit political affiliation has emerged. Meanwhile, memes and jokes proliferated, many riffing on his first name and comparing him to the "Mario Bros." character Luigi, sometimes depicted in AI-altered images wielding a gun or holding a Big Mac. "Godspeed. Please know that we all hear you," wrote one user on Facebook. "I want to donate to your defense fund," added another. According to Mangione's LinkedIn profile, he is employed as a data engineer at TrueCar, a California-based online auto marketplace. A company spokesperson told AFP Mangione "has not been an employee of our company since 2023." Although he had been living in Hawaii ahead of the killing, he originally hails from Towson, Maryland, near Baltimore. He comes from a prominent and wealthy Italian-American family, according to the Baltimore Banner. The family owns local businesses, including the Hayfields Country Club, its website says. A standout student, Mangione graduated at the top of his high school class in 2016. In an interview with his local paper at the time, he praised his teachers for fostering a passion for learning beyond grades and encouraging intellectual curiosity. A former student who knew Mangione at the Gilman School told AFP the suspect struck him as "a normal guy, nice kid." "There was nothing about him that was off, at least from my perception," this person said, asking that their name not be used. "Seemed to just be smiling, and kind of seemed like he was a smart kid. Ended up being valedictorian, which confirmed that," the former student said. Mangione went on to attend the prestigious University of Pennsylvania, where he completed both a bachelor's and master's degree in computer science by 2020, according to a university spokesperson. While at Penn, Mangione co-led a group of 60 undergraduates who collaborated on video game projects, as noted in a now-deleted university webpage, archived on the Wayback Machine. On Instagram, where his following has skyrocketed from hundreds to tens of thousands, Mangione shared snapshots of his travels in Mexico, Puerto Rico and Hawaii. He also posted shirtless photos flaunting a six-pack and appeared in celebratory posts with fellow members of the Phi Kappa Psi fraternity. However, it is on X (formerly Twitter) that users have scoured Mangione's posts for potential motives. His header photo -- an X-ray of a spine with bolts -- remains cryptic, with no public explanation. Finding a coherent political ideology has also proved elusive, though he had written a review of Ted Kaczynski's manifesto on the online site goodreads, calling it "prescient." Kaczynski, known as the Unabomber, carried out a string of bombings in the United States from 1978 to 1995, a campaign he said was aimed at halting the advance of modern society and technology. Mangione called Kaczynski "rightfully imprisoned," while also saying "'violence never solved anything' is a statement uttered by cowards and predators." According to CNN, handwritten documents recovered when Mangione was arrested included the phrase "these parasites had it coming." Mangione has also linked approvingly to posts criticizing secularism as a harmful consequence of Christianity's decline. In April, he wrote, "Horror vacui (nature abhors a vacuum)." The following month, he posted an essay he wrote in high school titled "How Christianity Prospered by Appealing to the Lower Classes of Ancient Rome." In another post from April, he speculated that Japan's low birthrate stems from societal disconnection, adding that "fleshlights" and other vaginal-replica sex toys should be banned. ia/nro/dwCLEVELAND (AP) — The NFL has closed an investigation into sexual assault allegations against Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson, who is ending the season on injured reserve for the second year in a row. The league has been reviewing the case for months , trying to determine whether Watson should be punished. “The matter is closed,” league spokesman Brian McCarthy said Friday in an email to The Associated Press. “There was insufficient evidence to support a finding of a violation of the personal conduct policy.” Watson, who served an 11-game suspension in 2022, was accused of assault in Texas by a woman in September. She was seeking more than $1 million in damages before the sides reached a confidential settlement. Watson strongly denied the allegations through his attorney, Rusty Hardin. The 29-year-old Watson suffered a season-ending Achilles tendon rupture in October. He's been rehabbing the injury in hopes of returning next season. The Browns still owe Watson $46 million in each of the next two seasons after they traded three first-round picks to Houston and signed him to a five-year, fully guaranteed $230 million contract that has backfired. Watson has only played in 19 games over three seasons due to the suspension and injuries. He was acquired by the Browns, who were comfortable with his character despite Watson being accused of sexual assault and inappropriate conduct during massage therapy sessions while he played for the Texans. While he's in the clear with the league, Watson's future with Cleveland isn't so certain. His massive contract — and its salary-cap ramifications — has put the Browns in a bind in terms of trying to improve their roster. Cleveland has had a disappointing season after making the playoffs a year ago and could move on from Watson, but the cost would be exorbitant if the team just releases him. The Browns signed Jameis Winston for one season to be Watson's backup. Winston has gone 2-3 as a starter since taking over and he's put some life into Cleveland's offense, which didn't score 20 points or gain 300 yards with Watson before his injury. His 2023 season was ended by a broken bone in his shoulder, requiring surgery. Winston has indicated he would come back, and he could be a viable option as a starter even if the Browns draft a young QB. AP NFL: https://apnews.com/hub/NFL

NoneSUNRISE, Fla. (AP) — Spencer Knight made 20 saves, Mackie Samoskevich scored with less than a second left in the second period, and the Florida Panthers got four goals in the third to beat the Carolina Hurricanes 6-0 on Saturday and complete a two-day sweep. Aleksander Barkov, Sam Bennett, Aaron Ekblad, Evan Rodrigues and Adam Boqvist also scored for Florida, which won 6-3 at Carolina on Friday. The Panthers have won three straight — that streak following a stretch of six losses in seven games for the Stanley Cup champions. It was Knight's fourth career shutout, his first since Nov. 9, 2022 — also at home against Carolina. Spencer Martin made 23 saves on 28 shots for the Hurricanes, who have dropped four of their last six games (2-3-1). It was Martin's fourth consecutive start for Carolina. Takeaways Hurricanes: This was the first time all season that the Hurricanes failed to get a point in the game immediately following a loss. Carolina was 4-0-1 after a defeat entering Saturday. Panthers: A big day for Samoskevich — his alma mater Michigan beat Ohio State in football on Saturday, that game ending just before the Florida-Carolina game started. The Panthers are 5-0-0 when he scores this season. Sam Reinhart had each of the four most recent Florida goals at 19:59, before Samoskevich got his Saturday. Key moment The Panthers scored two goals 11 seconds apart in the third to make it 5-0, and Yaniv Perets replaced Martin in the Hurricanes' net with 8:12 remaining. It was the second NHL appearance for Perets, who came on once in relief for Carolina last season. Key stat Ekblad's goal was his first in a span of 1,045 regular-season shifts since Feb. 20. Up next Carolina starts a two-game homestand Tuesday against Seattle. Florida goes to Pittsburgh to start a two-game trip on Tuesday. ___ AP NHL: https://www.apnews.com/hub/NHL Tim Reynolds, The Associated PressLouisiana GOP lawmakers want to make it easier to try juveniles as adults

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Despite concerns over Saudi Arabia's human rights record, football's governing body has voiced confidence the kingdom can host the 2034 World Cup. Amnesty International called the FIFA report an "astonishing whitewash." FIFA, the world's governing football body, released a report Saturday on Saudi Arabia 's bid to host the 2034 World Cup . Saudi Arabia is the only nation seeking to host the tournament in 2034, and one whose de facto leader, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, is chummy with FIFA President Gianni Infantino . FIFA's report gave Saudi Arabia high marks, while assessing the kingdom's bid as presenting "low" environmental and "medium" human rights risks . Late last year, Saudi Arabia submitted its bid to host the 2034 tournament (which was only open to Asia and Oceania nations) — while Morocco, Spain and Portugal submitted a joint bid for 2030, with Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay also each slated to host one game during the centenary edition of the tournament. The fate of Saudi Arabia's bid , as well as that of the 2030 hosts, will be known on December 11, when a virtual meeting of FIFA's 211 national football associations takes place. Why is Saudi Arabia investing billions in sports? To view this video please enable JavaScript, and consider upgrading to a web browser that supports HTML5 video Saudi bid presents 'strong all-round proposition' The Saudi bid, according to FIFA, "presents a very strong all-round proposition, reflected in the results of the technical evaluation, which assesses the proposed infrastructure (both sporting and general) as well as its commercial potential." FIFA highlighted the "substantial hospitality footprint proposed" by Saudi Arabian organizers as another potential revenue stream . Despite past evidence, the FIFA report voiced hope the tournament could prompt a turnaround in Saudi Arabia's repressive society, "in terms of human rights, the undertaking involved in implementing the various measures... particularly in certain areas, could involve significant effort and time." "It is important to note that the bid involves significant opportunities for positive human rights impact," continued FIFA, "There is good potential that the tournament could serve as a catalyst for some of the ongoing and future reforms and contribute to positive human rights outcomes for people in Saudi Arabia and the region that go beyond the scope of the tournament itself." Saudi Arabia has worked hard to shake negative headlines about its human rights abuses and even its state-sanctioned killing of political rivals , for instance, by investing massive amounts of oil cash into sporting events like Formula One races, tennis tournaments and even a new, professional golf league — in a phenomenon known as "sportswashing." Despite those investments and much international attention, Saudi society has yet to experience the arrival of a new era of human rights and liberalization. Saudi guards accused of killing Ethiopian migrants To view this video please enable JavaScript, and consider upgrading to a web browser that supports HTML5 video Amnesty International denounces FIFA report as 'astonishing whitewash' Human rights organization Amnesty International blasted Saturday's report releasing a statement denouncing it as an "astonishing whitewash." "FIFA's evaluation of Saudi Arabia's World Cup is an astonishing whitewash of the country's atrocious human rights record," Amnesty's head of labor rights and sport Steve Cockburn said. "The sports body has decided to ignore the clear evidence of worker exploitation, legalized discrimination and severe repression, and press ahead with a predetermined decision." "At every stage of the process," continued the statement, "FIFA has ensured that nothing would stand in the way of Saudi Arabia hosting the 2034 World Cup and it has effectively discarded its human rights policies to achieve this end." Rights groups have regularly highlighted Saudi Arabia's myriad abuses, including mass executions and allegations of torture, pointing out that free expression, too, is severely restricted — with some people receiving lengthy jail terms over critical social media posts. js/wd (AFP, AP, dpa, Reuters)Tulsi Gabbard, Trump’s pick for intel chief, faces questions on Capitol Hill amid Syria falloutLOS ANGELES — UCLA football underclassmen carried their seniors off the field after Thursday’s practice as part of Bruin tradition, hoisting them above their shoulders in honor of the work they’ve done in their time with the team. Two days later, 42 players walked in the Senior Day celebration prior to the Bruins’ season finale against Fresno State at the Rose Bowl. Redshirt junior Carson Schwesinger took part in the celebration, indicating the possibility that the Butkus Award-nominated linebacker may not stay for another next season. Schwesinger and head coach DeShaun Foster said the FBS’ leading tackler has not made a decision as to whether he will go to the NFL. “He’s really going to do whatever is best for him in that situation,” Foster told reporters Wednesday. “I completely understand, especially if he gets the Butkus Award, and the way that he came out and performed this season. He deserves to get a shot and go to the NFL.” Receiver J.Michael Sturdivant also walked for Senior Day. Sturdivant, a redshirt junior, was UCLA’s third-leading receiver heading into Saturday’s game with 311 total yards and one touchdown. He averaged 31.1 yards per game. Sturdivant’s ability to stretch the field was underutilized in his two seasons at UCLA after he previously played two seasons at Cal. Offensive lineman Josh Carlin, edge rusher Oluwafemi Oladejo and defensive lineman Jay Toia each walked with the seniors Saturday and are expected to make a push for the NFL. “Incredibly grateful for the Bruin program, the UCLA program,” Oladejo told reporters Tuesday. “Came in here at the age of 19 and I’m now 21, so I’ve grown here a lot. Grown as a man, matured. Not just on the field but off the field as well. This means a lot to me.” Other notable players who took part in Senior Day: offensive lineman Garret DiGiorgio, quarterbacks Ethan Garbers and Chase Griffin, running back Keegan Jones, receiver Logan Loya, tight end Moliki Matavao and linebacker Kain Medrano. “A game like, this you want to send the seniors off on the right note,” Schwesinger said, “but on top of that, it’s being able to go out there and play competitively. We’re all here because we like to play football and you get a chance to do that, you’ve gotta go out and play your hardest.” Jordan Chiles promotes return Olympic and UCLA gymnast Jordan Chiles was in attendance for Saturday’s football game and gave a “4’s up” gesture on the big screen during the second quarter, promoting her return to UCLA. Chiles, a junior who took a year off to train for and compete in the 2024 Paris Olympics, will make her return as a Bruin for the upcoming 2025 season. She made the announcement in an interview with TODAY’s Hoda Kotb in early August. Chiles won a silver medal in 2020 to make her the most decorated Olympian in UCLA women’s gymnastics history. She scored three perfect 10s in her 2022 season as a Bruin — two in floor exercise and one on the uneven bars. She won NCAA titles in both events in 2023 and was the runner-up in the all-around at the national championships. UCLA’s gymnastics season begins with its Meet the Bruins event on Dec. 14 at Pauley Pavilion.

The Times view on Notre Dame’s reopening: Faithful RestorationStrange lights in the sky, little green men and crashed vessels secreted away to government labs — the relatively modern history of UFOs is replete with conspiracy theories and allegations of coverups. But beyond the endless arguments between believers and debunkers over what could be behind the phenomena, the fact remains that many people have looked into the sky and reported seeing things they cannot explain. So what do UFO reports tell us about ourselves? To discuss UFO sightings, how and why they first emerged, and the ways they tie into the cultural and political trends of the past and present, Live Science spoke with Greg Eghigian , a professor of history and bioethics at Penn State University, whose new book, " After The Flying Saucers Came " (Oxford University press, 2024), is one of the first social histories of UFOs, or unidentified anomalous phenomena (UAP). Here's what he had to say. Ben Turner: A lot of people assume UFOs entered public consciousness with the Roswell incident . But your book says otherwise. When did it all begin? Greg Eghigian: I think when we look at this as a social phenomenon — not just simply someone saw something strange in the sky, but that the object was made by somebody, and that one of the probable scenarios is they were extraterrestrials — we can mark the moment that starts to evolve in June 24, 1947. The private pilot Kenneth Arnold sees these objects [that day] over Washington state when he's flying his plane. He lands and reports it to the military and to journalists. When asked how they flew, he answered that these things flew kind of like saucers skipping across the water. Then, within a day or two, a journalist comes up with this great headline: "Flying saucers." Once we had flying saucers, everything else fell into place. Sign up for the Live Science daily newsletter now Get the world’s most fascinating discoveries delivered straight to your inbox. BT: But then Roswell happened just a few weeks later. How did a fairly small city in New Mexico become famous all over the world for UFOs, while Arnold's name remains relatively unknown? GE: Here's the thing about Roswell that a lot of people don't realize. The story that came out of Roswell is that some material had been retrieved around an Air Force base there that they believe could be from a crashed flying saucer. Within a day, the Air Force rolls that back, saying that it's not the case, the people who first found it were mistaken. The reality is that the people who were on the ground and found this stuff were not terribly qualified to talk about it. They didn't understand what they had, literally, in their hands, and the people who usually dealt with the material were actually off at a conference. When they did finally get a chance to look at it, they said, "Oh this is pretty mundane stuff," and they corrected themselves. So the Roswell thing gets a lot of air play, a lot of global news coverage for about 24 to 48 hours, and then it disappears. It's not really ever talked about, and leaves very little imprint on the UFO world for decades. It's then only in the late 1970s that some ufologists (and this is a very common thing in the UFO world) go back over the records, dig deeper into the story and believe that they found all these contradictions in it. That's when Roswell became a focal point. BT: Looking at the period of history where all of this kicked off, we have growing Cold War rivalry, the new existential threat of nuclear weapons, McCarthyism, fear of communism and Soviet Russia. It seems like a time that's ripe for paranoia and conspiracism. How much is all of the UFO stuff tied into that? GE: Oh, it's very tied in. I make the point in the book that I don't think the UFO phenomenon as we know it would exist without the Cold War. There are a variety of reasons for that, but one of the often forgotten aspects of this is World War II. WWII and the Cold War bring a number of critical things to the table for how UFO stories were built. Firstly, you have big governments. Big governments and big militaries. You look at the United States federal government in 1900 and it's not a big thing, it's not this monstrosity. By 1945, the U.S. government was a large bureaucracy with a big military. Secondly, what WWII taught everybody was that this institution can have secret programs that build remarkable technology, like the atomic bomb , as well as new kinds of airplanes such as jets. And of course, both conflicts also have a lot of spying. So when the UFO phenomenon emerges, the initial thought of just about everybody is that it has to be one of these superpowers. This has to be somebody doing surveillance. That's also a lot of the ways it's still spoken about today: Who's doing this? Who's keeping it a secret? What are their intentions? And could it harm us? So it's very much a part of it, and it haunts the story of UFOs for decades. BT: There are also interesting preludes to the Kenneth Arnold moment in 1947. One thing that flashes to mind is Orson Welles' 1938 radio broadcast of the "War of The Worlds ," which caused a mass panic that aliens were actually invading. Why did flying saucers take off in 1947 and not earlier? GE: I think the game changer is the atomic bomb. That something could be invented that we had no idea about, that is just presented to the world, and has this enormous destructive power that could wipe out all of humanity almost in an instant. When you ask why now, some people will respond that alien visitors have always been here and we're just noticing them now. But the argument that's usually presented is that it's probably because they [the aliens] saw us explode atomic bombs. This makes us capable of being conversed with, or a possible threat down the road. BT: There's an appeal to a higher power in it too, right? In a time when religion is falling by the wayside, after all the horrors of the past century, people were looking for something that could save us from ourselves. GE: There are certainly people who believe exactly that. The figure who lays all of this out is the psychologist Carl Jung. In the late 1950s, he wrote one of the first, and still one of the best, scholarly books on the topic . It makes this argument that, real or not, what they [UFOs] represent to people is this idea of salvation from something, at least that's the hope. By the early 1950s you see the beginning of UFO religious communities, almost all of them tied to the New Age Movement. BT: Everything you've said so far makes this seem like a firmly mid-20th century American phenomenon. I confess to having been partial to the History Channel's "Ancient Aliens" back in the day. Do sightings stretch across cultures and into the past, as they claimed? Or is that a post-hoc narrative? GE: This is a question that people debate pretty vigorously. There's no question that people reported seeing strange things in the sky dating back to ancient times. The most famous example is probably meteorites. For a long time the idea that rocks could fall from the sky seemed patently absurd, until people found out the reason is because there are a lot of rocks in space. The problem with going backward in time and retrospectively looking at stuff and saying: "Aha! Here's another example of a UFO," is that it's deeply, deeply problematic from a historical standpoint. Most of the time it involves an unintentional, and sometimes outright deliberate misreading of documents, artifacts or paintings. I've seen very good art historians, for instance, talk about paintings and say: "Oh my gosh, these things are clearly flying saucers!" When the objects they're referring to are objects in a particular religious ritual. or serve as a very symbolic trope. So it's very, very difficult to do that stuff [accurately]. BT: This touches on the methodology in your book. You take an agnostic approach: You don't take reports at face value, but neither do you dismiss them out of hand. How does one go about impartially assessing a UFO report? That's going to seem like a weird concept to people. GE: Yeah it is strange to people, and I know a lot of people who still don't like that I do that. For me, as a historian, it's partly the idea that I don't feel qualified to adjudicate some of these matters. I think some of these things have to be done by a meteorologist, a physicist, an astronomer or an engineer — someone who is far better qualified than I am to say what's possible and what's anomalous. But the other part is that this is the way I get to the things that most interest me, which are human beings. I say in the introduction of the book that UFOs don't make history, people make UFOs make history. That really is the main point; it's that I'm interested in the human part of that history. As far as we know today, UFOs don't have a natural history, they have a human history. Everything about them is related to our perception of them, our speculations and our discussions about them. The social fact of the UFO is very real, and it needs to be chronicled now. Whether these things also have a natural history I'm going to leave up to the researchers who do that stuff for a living. BT: When you work through these reports, I'm sure some of them on their surface are obviously bogus. But others come from people, pilots for instance, who have no interest in UFOs and are speaking out at significant personal and professional cost. Have you come across any real headscratchers? GE: Yeah a lot of them can be, or at least certain elements of them. Back in the 1950s, there was one case that the U.S. Air Force looked into that really set them back on their heels. These two seasoned civilian pilots for Eastern Airlines, reasonable fellows, who saw this very strange object during a flight, they could even make out details from it and it was like nothing they'd seen before. That's eerie and strange. They didn't have any explanation for it and certainly had no call to make it up — they weren't seeking fame and that wasn't a time you could make any money off this stuff. Then there's the case of Lonnie Zamora in the 1960s, he was a police officer in the American Southwest who stopped his vehicle because he thought he saw a crashed car. He sees this strange object with people in a kind of white uniform working around it. Then they flit off in it. By everybody's assessment at the time, he was a mild mannered guy, very cool headed and with absolutely no interest in publicity. He comes across as very sheepish in the radio interviews. That's another case where you sit there and think it's hard not to believe he saw something. Then you try to come up with explanations for what the possibilities could be. BT: How do the reports evolve over time? Do they change as the culture surrounding them comes into sharper focus? GE: Some things don't change that much. The overwhelming number of them are seeing patterns of lights, orbs or spheres of some kind that move in a strange way then whoosh away with no sound . That remains relatively unchanged from the beginning. But people also see cigar shaped things or triangles. A lot of these things are common across the world. What has changed more dramatically over the years and over different areas, has been the description of the occupants of these vessels, the aliens themselves. Early on in the 1950s and 1960s, a very common thing would have been to talk about seeing what appeared to be robots — looking like the Tin Man from the "Wizard of Oz." We don't tend to see robots anymore. Another very common thing during the 1950s and 1960s were what were dubbed, "little men." They weren't really described as green but little and usually gendered male for some reason. They typically stood at about 4 feet [1.2 meters], and in places like Malaysia, they were under 6 inches [15 centimeters] tall. Another very common thing in their descriptions was they were wearing old divers suits. Then you get to the 1970s and 1980s, and there's a veritable zoo of creatures: things that look like insects; in South America and [in] the Soviet Union big hairy creatures that look like a Bigfoot or a Sasquatch are particularly common. The one we have come to know as "the gray" is not all that common until the publication of Whitley Strieber's "Communion" book in 1987, from that point the idea of what an alien looks like really crystallized. BT: That's got to be one of the things debunkers point to: the fact that the culture is shaping what people see makes it easier to call it a mass delusion. GE: Yeah, the debunkers look at it and do that. What debunkers would like to do is to get even more concrete than that and say why somebody would see something at a particular time. They say there was a television show two weeks before someone's sighting. Then the person comes back and says I never watched it, and they go back and forth. I firmly believe that the media of all sorts plays a formative role shaping the way people think, talk about and even see things. But from my standpoint, this is where I might deviate from the debunkers. I don't think that simply explains things away. It just means that people are human beings, they are doing what we always do. When something happens to us that is really bizarre or unexplainable, it's not a surprise that what we tend to do is turn to analogies and to metaphors. It helps us to say, "Well, this was a little like this." BT: These debates persist up to the present day, but things have changed a lot too. We're sitting at the tail end of our own UFO — or should I say UAP — wave. And this time, after U.S. Navy footage of mysterious flying objects was released in 2017, we've seen a very different reaction from officials. There have been Senate hearings , task forces set up, and NASA has even been roped in . What happened? Is it because everyone in the U.S. government now also grew up on UFO lore? GE: A number of things have changed that have led to this becoming something seen as legitimate to ask questions about, and considered, even in academic circles, to be respectable to discuss. One thing is the reality of new surveillance and sensors to detect surveillance. In the United States, China and Russia there is an awareness of those technologies and, of course, a Keeping up with the Joneses attitude about them. The proliferation of drones is one thing. Drones are everywhere now. I was speaking to a Swedish ufologist a few years ago and he said that the number of sightings that involve drones has skyrocketed. On the extraterrestrial dimension, since the late 1990s astronomers have found out that exoplanets are pretty ubiquitous. That introduces the idea that planets are really all over the place, and that habitable planets are really pretty likely. I think that's made it easier to conceive of these things as possible. I've heard debunkers say they believe it's probable that there are extraterrestrial civilizations out there, they just don't think they're visiting us. You also have people who are actively involved in lobbying people to take this seriously. There's Robert Bigelow, the billionaire, who's funneled a lot of money into this cause. Lobbyists now have the ear of certain politicians in America who see this as a valuable issue to them in some ways. I think you have to always be a little cynical about politicians — they tend to be very pragmatic, and the fact that they come to this subject doesn't necessarily mean they're interested in UFOs, but in other things they can achieve. BT: What are politicians trying to achieve by embracing it? GE: I could conceive of them using this as a way to say they're going to keep money away from the military because they're not being honest brokers about this. The number one thing I keep hearing over and over again, from people on these committees and those who are maybe less interested, is spending and classification. U.S. military secrecy has been a big priority since at least WWII, certainly since the Manhattan Project, and it's only increased over the years. Then 9/11 really doubled, tripled down on that. This makes the UFO/UAP thing a great example for all these folks to say, "We've got all these whistleblowers saying all this stuff is going on. We haven't heard anything about it. You're keeping this from us. It's all supposedly classified. So we want in." BT: One of the frustrating things about covering these questions is that you get task forces that are essentially military task forces. People come out to say all kinds of spooky stuff , and when they're probed further they say we'll tell you the rest behind closed doors, and no we won't allow scientists into the bases where we saw this. Now that NASA 's involved, do you have more faith for civilian science projects to get to the bottom of things? GE: Yeah, spot on. I agree with you completely. It's why I always tell people that, personally, I don't think these military intelligence branches will be key to addressing these questions. I don't think you're ever going to get it from them. I'm also not someone who believes in full transparency, sometimes it's important to keep secrets. NASA's endorsement of research in this area is unprecedented, and I think it's very welcome. I know a lot of scientists who have started to try to conduct research along these lines. The problem we have is it has not translated into funding yet. A lot of the current efforts are on shoestring budgets and it's unclear whether that money is ever going to be forthcoming. So far, at least in the United States, it has not been. But there is a hope among a lot of researchers that that will change, because the climate has changed. Civilian scientists and researchers are going to be the key, because we operate in a world of transparency, with an openness that contractors and government don't have. BT: Do you think we'll ever get a solid answer? GE: I suspect we will be revisiting and speculating over this for a good long time to come. The world's been at this for over 75 years, and the most seasoned ufology veterans will tell you that not a lot has changed. If there is an opportunity for serious, empirically driven researchers to get involved, maybe then we'll actually start to see some real progress. But until that time, it seems to me we're still stuck in a cycle where we largely rely on hearsay and references to evidence that never turns up. Or, as you say, people saying I've got some information, but I can only tell you behind closed doors. That just leaves us with the mystery, which I know some people are satisfied with. Editors note: This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity. After the Flying Saucers Came: A Global History of the UFO Phenomenon $15.99 on Amazon If you enjoyed this interview with Greg Eghigian, you can read more about the history of UFO sightings in his new book, "After the Flying Saucers Came." It's a fascinating account of the global cultural phenomenon.

Rangers have turned a corner and there are three players who have made it happen